deficit hauling

[smitty]

Hi everybody-

I just wanted to throw this topic out there so we could discuss filling defs. It has been discussed a bit on other threads, but it's such a big part of being a PO (pretty much the only thing i do) that i thought it should get its own topic.

Here's my theory:
i have 30 defs- 6 are filled with factories, and i ignore 2 (because they're -1 or they're hard to find/etc)

this leaves me 22 defs i have to fill regularly. I split my defs so that i have a group i can fill constantly (like every hour) which is 3 runs, and a group i fill say, twice a day, which is 2 runs

i have a 14 bay ship, so i have gotten my defs down to 5 seperate hauling runs, 4 defs get 3 bays each, and one gets 2 bays per run.

in this way, i'm able to haul every single def i have (except the two i ignore) in only 5 trips (and only going to 3 different planets!)

i've found that if i haul my "hourly" hauls once in the morning, and once or twice more at night, and my "daily" hauls once in the morning and once in the evening, i can make a good 3 meg per day!

since i'm able to get everything set up on fkeys (having only the 5 runs is the key), the hauling operation is a 10 minute or less ordeal each time, so we're looking at a daily investment of maybe 30 minutes to make 3 meg or more

the key is to group similar production level commods together, and find a planet that you can fill 3,3,3,3,2 bays in your 14 bay ship.

for me, i've found that 3 bays is the optimum money maker- i tried more (even just 4) and i was making less than a third of what i made when i used 3 as the magic number.

sooo.... let us know what you do, and i'll keep experimenting to see if there's a way to make even MORE cash

[brookerf]

I always buy six bays of each deficit I am filling. I only mess with the ones that require 58 bays or more per day.

I have seven runs on F-keys. I've tried combining runs or grouping commods, but I run out of space. Maybe I'll work on that. I do these seven runs every time I have a spare moment. It takes me less than five minutes to do it. Last night, when I left my exchange, I had 1.2 megs in the treasury. This morning, almost twelve hours later, I have 3.6 megs after doing ONE run and whatever my factories have gained for me.

One of my alts has an arts factory on another planet, so the alt hauls in my arts from there (I actually lose money by doing this).

I haul in four other commods that I haul in "the hard way" (ie. no f-keys left!). One of those commods I fill less frequently than the others. I just do a di exchange and if it isn't fully back to -525, I wait.

I haul in the very early morning or the middle of the day when there isn't much going on in Sol. Couple that with planets that are selling at 6% and I can easily make between 5-15 megs a day hauling, when I have time. Luckily (?), I'm an insomniac that gets up VERY early! I transfer that to my treasury and take the tax hit, but its still profitable. In three days, I was able to do four builds.

I have NO idea what I'll do when I don't have as many facs to fill my defs. I guess I'll have to mess with my F-keys yet again!

[zr]

f-keys, yes

4 bays either way (import or export, sometimes simulateously), except for cereals which I buy in mass quantities (13 bays at a time) from Trade worlds (not all are listed here, but same diff), as well as a few sol worlds (buy those in 4 like the general haul).

does seem to make about the same amount of money, unless I do it 2x (so 8 bays, but spread over 2 "hauling sessions" or whatever you're calling them). --- then I make near 8M*

*The Treasury # from log out (last thing I do) to log in (4th, sometimes 5th thing I do on log in).

~ ZR /// Alan

edit/add:

I should say the f-keys are only hard to spell words (scalpels, usually) and cereals that I buy in bulk. Most of the other words aren't too hard to spell (sensamps, being an exclusion), though since we generally have diff defs that doesn't necc apply to the rest of you.

[cragon]

Not hard to see why you are so successful Smitty. You have filling defs down to a science. I do use f-keys to a limited degree although I find I do a lot of running around anyway and filling defs for me takes a long, long time if I want to make serious groats.

I think the biggest problem is boredom when it comes to filling defs. To fight this I change things up and fill defs in a different order and also bay loads so I am not always doing the same ole, same ole. One thing for sure is I will never be as successful as Smitty but I am happy with the progress my little hunk of rock is doing.

Cragon

[brookerf]

Oh, Cragon! I *SO* know what you mean about hauling defs being boring. After reading that Smitty had his route solely on F-keys, I reworked mine over and over until I had my entire route on my own F-keys. At this point, its the only way I can stand to haul in defs. (Unlike hauling for a profit, where I see immediate benefits to doing it!) It really takes me less than 5 minutes to do it. Planets like Altaria, New Gough, Ius and Mersun have low spread/high stockpiles and Halloween, Maroon and Slither have high stockpiles of a lot of biological, so you can visit several times a day without running out of the commod.

Here's my new (#1) dilemma: I'm making 1.5 megagroats each time I haul. However, if I don't haul in defs, my planet makes very little with its factories (>500,000/day). This is bad because I have tons of facs...and thought I was filling all these deficits completely. Anyone have advice for me?

[madadder]

Great strategy for filling defs Smitty!

I developed a similar system to fill defs. Basically I have 14 commods (including 6 of my 10 biggest defs) take care of by F-Keys.

Unforunately I have defs in all Bio and all but 1 Leisure commod (the 1 breaks even), and Sol is the best place to get these commods, and unless you spend a slithy on a customs exemption you can't trade in Sol with only F-Keys because of customs. I have found a few player planets to fill some of my Bio and Leisure defs, but I tend to focus more on my Agri, Resource, and Tech defs (I have no Ind defs), since they are more available and the Agri and Resource burn quickly due to builds.

[smitty]

I know exactly what you mean mad- i have a similar setup that forces me to trade in sol exclusively... not the best situation. so what i do is trade on Doris and Silk, and very occasionally on Rhea.

Doris and Silk are both a minimum number of moves from the link, so that keeps customs at bay. Though they do still strike now and then. And yes, i've flown into the sun a few times since becoming a PO

Basically, i have 3 f-keys for each run, set up like this:
1. go from my exchange to LP, buy fuel, board and fly to Doris, go to exchange
2. buy goods on doris, go to doris LP and buy fuel, board and fly home
3. sell goods from doris

This leaves me enough f-keys to be extremely lazy, cause you can get 4 runs in if you go to 4 different planets, or more runs if you keep going to the same planet(s)

and if i do get stopped by customs, the likelihood that i'll hit the sun is pretty low... even so, i don't mind getting a new body every once in a while!

once we get the next rank in, i'll be promoting right away, so i'll get to (hopefully, finally) start trading more out of sol.

[madadder]

Heh, my F-Keys are pretty extensive, I've become lazy with them.

I've got 5 F-Keys in runs for filling defs. Each one basically does this -

Leaves my exchange, boards, jumps to another system, lands, goes to the ex, buys 3 bays of 3 commods I want to fill, goes back to my planet's exchange, and sells it all. I fill 14 defs this way without breaking a sweat, though I'll probably hafta retool since a couple of my leisure defs with big consumption has relied upon a couple planets with big stockpiles, and those stockpiles have started to become depleted since I've been buying from them.

As a rule, I keep spreads for my F-Key defs at 40% all the time, I have them at 30% for stuff I haul in manually (I switch them to 40 before selling then switch them back when I'm done), and at 30% for the defs I don't haul in. I find that if anyone wants to sell a def to my ex that 30% is good because it brings in good money for the planet AND allows the hauler to make a profit by normally buying above base price.

[zr]

Generally speaking there won't be many player worlds with bio---it was a bug ibgames found and "fixed" on "future linked worlds" (not verbatim, but close enough) (ONLY bio worlds are supposed to make bio, unless you do the def builds).

So, yes, stuck with Doris, Silk for bio commods...though sensamps are only found on 2 sol worlds, too, with hypnos on 3, so those can be hard to find, as well.

I'm sitting on ass, losing interest in game but that's what I found when I was playing.

~ ZR /// Alan /// Lorzec

[madadder]

Alrighty, I've tweaked my def-filling strategy a little.

I've got four F-Keys that I use to fill my Agri, Res, and Tech defs (I have no Ind defs). I gave Agri and Res the priority since, with increased efficiency, they empty faster than the Tech defs.

For my Bio and Leisure Defs, I have one F-Key that I use kind of as a wild card. I have 6 setups that I'll copy and paste into that slot, run it, do the next, etc. This takes care of most of my bio and leisure defs (there are about 2 or 3 that it doesn't cover, but these are minor defs so I'll fill them manually). I go into Sol for all of these defs, so it's an annoyance when customs interferes (I had my first run-in with the Sun last week), but all in all I found that it's efficient.

I'm online most of the day when I'm at work, I fill my Agri - Tech defs every hour or two usually. I'll do the Bio / Leisure runs maybe once or twice a day at work since I'm on a Mac here and hate the way Macs handle it (it inserts a blank line between each command, and you can't Apple-V to paste stuff in the Fed client), then I'll do it more often at home on my PC. Also, before I go to sleep at night, I try to fill my defs almost completely. I did this one night, went to sleep with a treasury of 45k groats, and woke up to 9 meg the next morning.

Of course, exchange speeds are a big factor in how often I fill as well. Following this strategy, I've amassed enough groats to do 5 builds in the past 9 days, averaging about a build every other day. The Transfer command has helped, as through hauling my defs, even with 40% spreads, I usually make 3 megs every few days, which I transfer (1 gets lost in taxes, which is fine) into the planet usually to have enough to do another build.